I Dont Know Why I Did Im Sorry Art Jester Modern Art
Neil Koenig, ex BBC producer and current ideaXme lath advisor and guest interviewer, interviews Mohammed Afkhami, philanthropist and art collector. If asked to name a country associated with modern art, few people today might call up of Iran. The collector Mohammed Afkhami is working difficult to change that perception.
In recent years he has amassed a big collection of Iranian art. Mr Afkhami says his love of art began at an early age: "we used to visit my gramps'south house multiple times a week, and he nerveless Islamic fine art and antiquities, Western artworks, Japanese lacquer…it was a fascinating and enchanting house of treasures". He left Islamic republic of iran every bit a immature child, after the revolution at the end of the 1970s. Afterward embarking on a successful career in finance, he somewhen returned in the early on 2000s. "It felt like coming home" he explains. Mohammed Afkhami was surprised and delighted by the quality of gimmicky art available, even though there were just a small number of galleries open at the fourth dimension in Tehran. He bought works by Sirak Melkonian and Massoud Arabshahi for around $500 apiece. Since then, the collection has grown to include works by artists such as Shirin Neshat, Monir Farmanfarmaian, Parviz Tanavoli, Abbas Kiarostami and many more than. What is the fine art scene similar in Iran today? According to Mr Afkhami it is thriving, despite the impact of sanctions. In that location are now hundreds of galleries in Tehran, he says: "an artist is lucky to take a show that lasts longer than a month, because there'southward such a excess of artists wanting to exhibit". In an interview with me for ideaXme, Mohammed Afkhami talks about his passion for his country'due south fine art, how he built his collection and how he works with artists and galleries, and how art can serve to broaden understanding and break downwardly cultural barriers.
Rebel Jester Mystic Poet Exhibition
"Insubordinate, Jester, Mystic, Poet: Contemporary Persians—The Mohammed Afkhami Drove", can be seen at the Asia Society in New York until May 2022. Drawing from the collection of financier and philanthropist Mohammed Afkhami, the exhibition comprises paintings, sculptures, photographs, and videos.
Of the 23 participating artists, over a tertiary live in Islamic republic of iran, over a third live exterior of Iran, and 5 live in New York Metropolis. These established, mid-career, and emerging artists are working from unique vantage points, informed by a rich cultural heritage as well as more than recent extensive social and political unrest in Iran. Referencing "gimmicky Persians," the exhibition's championship evokes an ancient civilization that is still very much alive today. The curator of the exhibition is Dr. Fereshteh Daftari.
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The ideaXme interview with Mohammed Afkhami
Neil Koenig: [00:00:00] We're here to "idea" anybody, to fire up your curiosity and connect you with the people and ideas that shape our world. Watch. Listen. Understand. Connect. Create. Let'due south move the human story forward together.
Neil Koenig: [00:00:xix] Welcome to ideaXme. I'yard Neil Koenig. Think of the country Iran today and modernistic art might not exist the commencement matter that comes to heed. One collector who's trying to modify that perception isMohammed Afkhami, who's congenital upwards a large collection of Iranian fine art in recent years. You can run across some works from his collection in the show Rebel, Jester, Mystic, Poet on display at the Asia Club in New York until May 20, 2022. Mohammed, thanks for joining u.s.. Before we talk well-nigh the exhibition, just tell u.s.a. a little bit about yourself and your groundwork.
The Mohammed Afkhami Collection
Mohammed Afkhami: [00:01:01] Thanks, Neil, and thanks for giving me a few minutes to talk about the collection and what I'm trying to achieve. I'yard of Iranian origin, only I consider myself an Anglicized Iranian because I left Iran during the revolution at the age of four, in 1979, and pretty much spent my formative years in the UK and Switzerland. So, I consider the United kingdom of great britain and northern ireland as my adopted dwelling with London being the base. And then I went to written report in the States and then I worked in a series of fiscal services firms until I set my ain. Starting in Chicago, and so New York and London. And for the terminal 20 years I have been based in Dubai. And information technology'south actually been a groovy journey because I recall that my life has done a total loop in that I started in the Middle East, and I ended up back in the Middle E. And Dubai is the perfect combination considering I still feel a strong sense of Iranian identity. But given what I practice for a living and where I sit, unfortunately the opportunities that are present for me are non in Iran. They be in the Middle East and London and New York. Even so Dubai gives me that sense of being close to home because in that location'southward such a potent Iranian influence and a lot of Iranian expatriates are hither. I've had Dubai as my second home at present for the past 20 years. And in that time, since the early days of when I moved there in 2004, I started reconnecting with Iran, only more on a cultural basis by beginning to collect art from that country.
Mohammed Afkhami: [00:02:45] And so this had been a sixteen/17-twelvemonth project and it continues. [00:02:52] Just information technology was a project that was designated by blow. I come from a family unit that has been very involved in the process of fine art collecting and of art philanthropy from the sixties where my grandpa had a very large collection of Islamic art and antiquities that my female parent helped him amass. I've always been surrounded by art from Iran, albeit from a different period. And I've also had the privilege of knowing some of the great academics that covered Iranian and Islamic fine art history growing up. Information technology was an accidental passion that stumbled into my life when I was visiting family in Iran in 2004.
Mohammed Afkhami: [00:03:34] I had to spend a little longer there than I'd hoped. I had to renew some paperwork and I was introduced to a few contemporary galleries. At the time in that location were less than a handful and I saw some beautiful artworks and of class I wasn't familiar with Iranian currency. Unfortunately, Iranian currency has a lot of zeros. I asked the galleries, I said, you know, (this Mah gallery in primal Tehran): How much is information technology worth? They said 50,000. Then, I thought, I've got to work a lot harder to buy that work. It was in fact 50,000 Riyals at the time. Information technology equated to something like $500. And then, I bought my start two pieces of art.
Neil Koenig: [00:04:14] And what were these artworks?
Mohammed Afkhami: [00:04:17] These were actually by two nifty mod masters of Iranian art, very recognized, published, museum exhibited. One is a gentleman called Sirak Melkonian, who is an Iranian Armenian, and the other one was a guy called Massoud Arabshahi. Both, every bit I said, very talented and recognized modern masters. And 1 work was very minimalist. It almost looks Japanese. Information technology's very clean, near refined looking art. And the other one was past Massoud, and that nigh had a feeling of like an engineering schematic, but with abstraction overlaid over it. And over again, both works were beautiful, and I thought that I was very lucky to buy them for $500 each. And of course, when I bought these works, I started buying more because it was so affordable, and I only bought my first home in Dubai, and I therefore had a lot of wall space. So, I said, I've got to go to purchase fine art to populate this home. And and so, of form, this passion stepped in, and I was telling my mother near information technology, and she was not convinced. I mean, she knew many of these modern artists, but she was more an advocate of more traditional Islamic art and antiquities.
Iranian Fine art
Parsec #15, (left) 2009. With permission: Mohammed Afkhami Foundation.
Mohammed Afkhami: [00:05:30] But and then equally I showed her some of the works, you know, her knowledge and her connections inside Iran and with the actual artists proved invaluable because she caught the issues. And nosotros really built this collection together. And today the collection has just over 600 works. Virtually 480 to 500 are from Iranian artists, but not only Iranian artists from the mod and contemporary period in Islamic republic of iran. We collect artists that are Iranian origin that might have never even been to Islamic republic of iran. And about 100 of the 600 works are really contemporary and modern artists from around the world considering in that location's also an aesthetic override on the drove where of form we honey to support Iranian artists, but on occasion you see a work that's just fabulous. And merely because it's not Iranian doesn't mean it should be disqualified. So, nosotros accept, again, you know, a host of these works that are non from Islamic republic of iran simply continue the same strain of aesthetic appeal if you like of the overall collection.
Neil Koenig: [00:06:34] Let'south go back to your upbringing, your childhood. Your grandfather had a big collection of Iranian fine art and artworks. What kind of impression do you call back that having on you when you were growing up?
Mohammed Afkhami: [00:06:51] Well, you know, it's funny y'all ask that question, because as I told you, I left Iran when I was iv. Merely some of the first memories that I accept that are quite vivid and quite clear are that we used to visit my gramps's house multiple times a week, and it was really quite a treasure trove considering yes, he collected Islamic fine art and antiquities, only his house was like this fascinating and enchanting house of treasure, all kinds of art, and even had Western artworks, all sorts of things, you know, Japanese lacquers. I remember if you lot walked around and touched something, you lot might crusade damage. It was a very vivid memory because he really loved his fine art and lived with it and was, you know, incredibly knowledgeable. And and so, of course, when the revolution happened, unfortunately, this collection was largely nationalized. But when we grew up in London, yous know, nosotros had kept very close contacts with some of the scholars that are archiving my grandfather's collection. So, these scholars were regularly in our house and my female parent would have these small dinners, e'er cooking homemade Farsi meals that they would all come up in for. And we would talk about the art. And my female parent decided to formalize her preparation in the early eighties and went back and pursued an MPhil, at SOAS, the Schoolhouse of Oriental African Studies at the University of London focusing on a specific menstruum of Qajar art, which is late 1700s, early 1800s. And so, there were always some objects in the house, and the business firm built on its Iranian identity through these artworks that she collected as a outcome of new collecting later afterward the revolution.
Neil Koenig: [00:08:33] Iran has a very long history. What touch on does that have on artists working today?
Mohammed Afkhami: [00:08:40] You lot know, when people talk about Islamic republic of iran, I don't like to recollect about Iran and the Iranian art as any defined boundary. Iran is an idea, and it's very interesting to ask that question because when yous see the mode contemporary artists make art, it's astonishing to me how they proceed drawing from influences in their Iranian identity. Either they're depicting imagery that might exist somewhat calligraphic in nature, or information technology might be depicting a scene that they're imagining from the Shahnameh, which is, you know, our Book of Kings, which is the equivalent of Homer's Iliad for Iranians. Or they're drawing on the Achaemenid glory days when the Persian Empire was at its maximum in terms of size and global influence. It's just interesting how these themes just go on coming back again and once more, even some artists that choose to pick up very stiff Shia motifs. I mean, the influences are everywhere. And then, of course, very interestingly, they take this influence and so they prefer it in terms of their technique and to make information technology appealing to an audience that would like it today. Because if yous think about my parents' generation, they were happy to purchase manuscripts and calligraphy. If you talk to people my age and younger, they desire big paintings with more abstract features, yet they're happy to see elements of calligraphy incorporated, but not in the same detailed, almost bookish way y'all see in a traditional Islamic manuscript. Yet the artist does not dump that notion of the past. They're nevertheless incorporating it, simply they're adapting to their audience. There'due south this constant dance between the past and what these artists are making today.
Neil Koenig: [00:10:34] You left Iran around the time of the revolution, at the end of the 1970s, and so you returned, and that'south when you began your journey of exploration of art in Iran. What was the scene like when you went back?
Mohammed Afkhami: [00:10:55] That's a groovy question. I didn't set foot in Iran from belatedly 78 until 2002. At the fourth dimension, I had been recently appointed the head of a regional arm, a South African bank chosen Standard Bank. My region was obviously the Middle E and Northward Africa, and nosotros had a small satellite role in Tehran that came under my remit. I flew in that location to check on it. It was the first time that I had been dorsum in 24 years. I'm not a very nervous individual and I don't get that, y'all know, clammy hands when the situation gets, y'all know, a little tense. Merely I remember I was flying on Emirates, and they were flying at an interesting altitude, low enough that I could see the tops of the Zagros Mountains. We were flight north through the Gulf, Tehran. And I was getting nervous. When I got off the plane, information technology was very interesting. Information technology's almost like I knew that I came from this land. Like as soon as I got off the plane, I smelt the air and at that place was a admirer who greeted me at the lesser of the aeroplane. It was as if I'd come back dwelling house. It was very interesting, and I can't explain it. I know it sounds preposterous, only it is a very eerie feeling when, you come from somewhere and you didn't realize it until you did. And it was like that. And it was actually somewhat endearing, yous know, despite the fact that the state, yous know, is non in the best of states, I felt a sure warmth. I felt proficient about being dorsum. I enjoyed it. I enjoyed the interaction with the people. I enjoyed going down from my female parent's apartment to the local bakery and merely exchanging a few words with the baker. And it's giving me this huge freshly made piece of Iranian Barbary bread and only eating it on the fashion home. I mean, these simple pleasures and feelings are, something you experience when you come back to somewhere where you're from.
Neil Koenig: [00:12:53] And what was the art scene like at the time?
Mohammed Afkhami: [00:12:58] And then at that time I didn't fifty-fifty know most the art scene. I mean, there were literally in the early 2000s, maybe v or six galleries. Today, they're well over 120/130. And it's become such a such a thriving scene that imagine this meal. Imagine that today an artist is lucky to have a show that lasts longer than a month because at that place's such a backlog of artists that want to exhibit and exist exhibited that They're only coming out of the woodwork. And Friday afternoons have become nearly like a weekly event where collectors become together and then only promenade through the streets of Tehran from gallery to gallery, effectively gallery hopping. And it's like an activity that people really await forward to. Then, I would tell you that, yous know, the scene is thriving there. There was a group of ex Iranians who worked for Christie's Dubai, learned exactly how Christie'south does a proper auction. And I would tell y'all that they've fix an auction there called the Tehran Sale. The catalogues look and feel like a Christie's catalogue. And when y'all go to the sale room, of class, imagine a very elegant sale setting. Just imagine adding an overlay of Persian hospitality where y'all're sitting down and people in white gloves are serving yous little horsˈ d'oeuvres and aperitifs, while you lot're in the auction bidding. And then, it'south quite interesting to see how they've adapted to their own scene. And, of course, recognising that motion of capital between Iran and outside is very difficult. So, they've created their own domestic scene that doesn't demand any support from abroad and doesn't need to be sent abroad either. It'due south internalized.
The Thriving Art Scene In Iran
Neil Koenig: [00:14:51] A lot of people may be surprised by the idea of a thriving art scene in Iran. One imagines political pressure or censorship. I hateful, are those things an issue at all?
Becoming, 2015 (foreground). With permission: Mohammed Afkhami Foundation.
Mohammed Afkhami: [00:15:06] I call up there are probably cherry-red lines you don't want to cross in Iran. And I suppose if y'all're not a sanctioned political entity, that would exist a hard position for someone to be in. But when it comes to the art scene, I would tell y'all that largely speaking, the government, accept a very hands-off approach. And I've rarely heard of whatever meaningful censorship of Iranian art. You know, of course, in that location are examples, just very footling by way of true censorship. I would say at least by not doing anything, they're implicitly supportive of information technology. And you can really run across that because even when you see Iran'south government, showcase themselves in international affairs or exhibitions, I can simply tell you what you see. If you become to the expo in Dubai and you go to the Iranian pavilion. fourscore% of the content is about Iran'due south civilisation and history. And and so, if you contrast that with other regimes that have an Islamic undertone, in that location is no promotion of culture. I mean, take the Taliban on the extreme end. They deliberately gear up about destroying old culture and just carpet bombing anything that has a legacy to Transitional islamic state of afghanistan's past. The Iranian government, I would say, is not in that camp past any stretch. And as I said, they're happy to promote their culture because it's a win for them as well.
Neil Koenig: [00:xvi:43] What's the state of affairs with education and training for artists and craftspeople?
Mohammed Afkhami: [00:16:49] So I would say, the Iranian government is nether pressure financially and I would say there is not a huge budget for any open back up. But of course, there are enough of art schools in Iran. At academy, you can report art history. You can study making of art. And there are thriving schools that are available for those people who want to pursue that line of career. They're at to the lowest degree doing the minimum to preserve, you lot know, historical sites. Likewise, nosotros have this Tehran Museum of Contemporary Art. And in the last ten years, there take been several seminal shows where they've extracted some of those works and showed them on brandish. I went to this wonderful show in 2013 where, they brought in Germano Celant, the famous curator who sadly passed away concluding twelvemonth from COVID. Merely he came and did a wonderful evidence where he got carte blanche to take pride in his works and dissimilarity them with, masters from this incredible Western annal that the Iranian government owned. And information technology was quite interesting to see all these grandees from the global art scene descend on Tehran for this this opening. So, I would say they do what they can, but of course, they don't take the means of some of their neighbours in the Gulf that, are really making huge strides ahead with these very large initiatives, whether it'due south the Guggenheim or the Louvre or the Qatar Museum of Islamic Art.
Mohammed Afkhami: [00:18:21] I mean, they don't accept such funding, but I recollect they recognize that fine art, especially a country like Iran that has and then much embedded art history, information technology is a class of soft power. And information technology's a practiced use of ability considering at the finish of the 24-hour interval, we alive in an age where, unfortunately, across any political society, whether it's in the UK, the US, anywhere, people are divided. Just divide it in a style where nosotros probably haven't seen such extreme divisions. But when it comes to similar culture, that's something where people can concur on similar you and I might not hold you and I might not agree on whether yous should be a Tory or Labour supporter, but we tin can both agree that a piece of art looks expert or, you know, has some meaning to you and me. Right? So, I remember it'due south a very interesting way to bridge differences and too lower or soften the tone.
Neil Koenig: [00:19:17] Art tin can serve as a kind of bridge to the rest of the world.
Mohammed Afkhami: [00:nineteen:21] I think so. And that'south one of the reasons why I'yard then passionate about Iranian art, because I bargain with a lot of Americans, I deal with a lot of Europeans. And, when I say that I am from Iran, I can run into some that are, let's say, less aware of what Iran is. They're similar, ooh and regard you with a touch of suspicion. Of grade, it'south momentary, simply yous tin can option information technology upwardly immediately from facial or trunk language. So, I idea to myself, wouldn't it exist great if people saw an alternative narrative to Iran? And actually the greatest asset of Iran is its civilization. I mean, forget almost oil and what goes on in contemporary Middle Eastern politics today. Every nation has its ups and downs, just Islamic republic of iran'south cultural contribution to the world is unquestionable. And I think that annihilation that promotes that and shows a different light is something I'm for, because at the end of the day, I am very grateful to being English language, that is having an English passport. If I were required to fight for beloved and land, I would fight for England in a heartbeat. But at the same time, I can't deny my ethnic roots either. And so, information technology upsets me to see the state portrayed in such a style, considering I know the people to be, very different to the way the Western caricature is of that country. And at the same time, I think that if people simply knew how much Iran as a country has contributed to things that we use daily, that we recite daily, that we visually enjoy daily, I retrieve it would change the tone towards Iran.
Neil Koenig: [00:21:06] Listening to you talk about your honey of your country and its heritage, it makes me wonder whether y'all have perchance a slightly unlike goal from other people who might collect art.
Mohammed Afkhami: [00:21:23] It's like an onion. In that location's similar multiple layers of why. So, for me, I do it because I recall it's of import to have some other narrative. Merely I would say at a more granular level, you know, there's a huge creative scene in Iran that doesn't have much financial support from the state considering the land merely doesn't take the means. It's this land that'due south been under sanctions in one class or some other for 42 years. And so, buying Iranian fine art helps Iranian artists. The best fashion you can help Iranian artists is simply to buy their works at a very simplistic level. And then, if I am able to show not bad international or great Iranian art to the international world, where at that place's bluntly a ton of money and a ton of interest for new ideas, new works. And they determine to buy Iranian art. Then I'yard doing my task. And I think that in some way, bringing Iranian art to an international audience has already accomplished certain goals. When I started collecting peradventure a scattering or ii handfuls of Iranian artists globally were represented by major art galleries. Today, in that location are at to the lowest degree twoscore, 50 artists that are represented by major international galleries. And those galleries are not selling to Iranian audiences. They're selling to global audiences. And then, you lot're seeing these Iranian artists now sit in collections that they couldn't possibly imagine being in ten or 15 years ago, considering there is an interest. At that place is the talent. And then, of grade, over the years you have to think about how to make this art scene more than sustainable. Because tomorrow I could have this phone call with you then cross the street and be run over.
Mohammed Afkhami: [00:23:09] And that's the end of my contribution, at to the lowest degree in terms of being agile and able to promote. But what volition certainly accept a more durable or sustainable effect on Iranian and Middle Eastern art scene are these Heart Eastern and North Africa acquisition committees that have been set up by many prominent museums, including LACMA, Guggenheim, British Museum, Tate, just to proper noun but a few. All these different groups accept pulled together people who accept an involvement in Middle Eastern art and raised funds to buy works that now class part of the permanent collection of each of those respective institutions. And so that is important. And of course, you've seen those works already on display like LACMA had a show a couple of years ago where they took a lot of their own work, plus invited collectors to lend. The British Museum had a wonderful show that ended this by September that was curated by Venetia Porter, who is the head of the Islamic Department called Reflections. And that was entirely based on the collection that we've amassed that'southward over 300 works from the British Museum's Middle East and North Africa Acquisition Commission. So, these are of import drivers for Iranian artists to sustain themselves. Even more than than, permit'south say, a multibillionaire setting up a museum and having a great splash and an opening. No one's thinking virtually what that museum volition look similar and feel like in x, xx years. While I'k pretty certain that the British Museum will be around for the foreseeable future.
Neil Koenig: [00:24:47] Yeah. How do you go near working with artists? Do you lot just purchase things at sale, or do yous commission and aid artists to develop their work?
Mohammed Afkhami: [00:25:03] It'due south a fleck of everything. I hateful, start things first. I think that at that place is a trajectory that an creative person should pursue to, again, manage their own career. I think it's very important for an creative person to work with a gallerist who will then work to become the works placed in different collections. And and then if the artists are talented enough, start placing those works with museums or beginning encouraging some sort of museum show or group show participation. So, we buy a lot from galleries. We purchase a lot from auction. If nosotros see things that are, let'south say, very rare or difficult to procure whatsoever other manner and they happen to announced in auction, nosotros come in and just endeavor to get for it. We as well buy from secondary dealers or families that happen to have fantastic works in their own annal. And then in that location's a generational transition. People know that nosotros're always in the market and they'll phone call usa. You know, we likewise have artists that do commissions, as yous say, when they try an experimental work and say they desire to brand something from a Carrara marble slice, and you've got to spend coin to make it in the fabrication. Then you enter into an system where y'all aid fund them and yous don't look for render. You just look for like, let'due south say, a decent entry cost for that work so long every bit they tin make more, and so other buyers come in. So, there are those sorts of arrangements as well. And then, this is how we do it, this is how we source the piece of work and how we aid the artists either direct or through galleries or support them in auction. It depends.
Neil Koenig: [00:26:41] And y'all mentioned the sanctions which have been going on for many years. How much of a practical problem, how much of a barrier practise they present?
Mohammed Afkhami: [00:26:51] It's a problem considering if yous're ownership works in Iran, you demand to have funds in Iran. Now, luckily, I accept some funds that are in Islamic republic of iran that I utilize to pay for my bills there. But sending money into Iran is very difficult because you merely can't transfer money internationally because Swift is not accessible for them. Information technology's not an option. And so that's why, in a manner, in that location'southward a bifurcated scene that's developed where people who are in Iran that collect within Iran, you lot know, they merely keep everything in Iran. So, they're earning in Iran. They're spending in Iran. They keep the works. Islamic republic of iran transporting works is not such a problem, although your pick of shippers and your choice of ship is limited. So, in that location'southward e'er a clogging considering there's a lot of work that wants to become out of Islamic republic of iran, simply there's only one or ii apparent shippers. So, logistics is a problem. But they notice a style. I mean, you know, if y'all need to take coin into Iran, in that location are these hawala dealers that, you know, they have a brother in Iran. The brothers outside give money to one. He gives you credit, another former school, Rothschild banking. And so, you can do it. But the reality is that nosotros never had an issue because whilst we source a lot of piece of work when nosotros were amassing the collection in the early to mid 2000, you lot know, financial transfers, were non as strict every bit today. And and so the reality is a lot of the work that we source today is out of Iran. So, it's not really a practical trouble for me, but it is a practical problem for people who are trying to develop a drove in Iran and then bring information technology out. Because, as I said, transporting the work is not piece of cake and getting coin into Islamic republic of iran is not like shooting fish in a barrel.
The Asia Society
Neil Koenig: [00:28:33] Tell u.s.a. almost the exhibition, the bear witness that currently on at the Asia Society, which has this intriguing championship, Rebel, Jester, Mystic, Poet. How did the title come up about?
Mohammed Afkhami: [00:28:48] I have to give 100% credit to our curator, Dr Fereshteh Daftari who is an excellent curator, highly achieved in the field, non but recognized in Western circles, but patently from a not bad Iranian family and deeply knowledgeable nearly Iran and the artists that she'southward picked. You know, to her credit, she spent 18 months putting together this collection by trawling through the drove, seeing the works in person, talking to artists. And, when I asked her about how she thought of the title, she said it but came to her. She said there were elements of each word that she found to be relevant for this collection. And so, this is a show that has 27 artworks, 23 dissimilar artists, 9 that are exclusively based in Iran, ix that are based between Iran and somewhere outside, and v that are exclusively based outside of Islamic republic of iran. And each of these words, she'south found artworks with these artists that represent rebels. And so, there's certain works that that say, you know, are mildly disquisitional of the organization in Iran, jester where in that location's some that are playful and mocking situations that are let'southward say known to Iranians mistics, some works literally take a draw Sufi influence and poet, this is a homage if you like, to Iran's rich poetry, simply also its tradition of calligraphy. So, you have a sampling of each of these works that actually form a very interesting story as you walk around the show.
Mohammed Afkhami: [00:30:27] As I said, I've never met somebody that walked out of the show and said, God, I hate that show. That's terrible. Only it'southward just had fantastic feedback from every visitor. Only I do think, you know, it'due south important that before y'all see the prove, you lot try to go online and watch some of the curated tours and do a little homework because obviously, yous know, each story, each piece of work has a very rich story to it. And the choice of works that the curator has put together is fantastic considering on the i manus, she'due south picked some of the well-nigh established artists similar Shirin Neshat, Monir Farmanfarmaian, Parviz Tanavoli and Abbas Kiarostami, the tardily filmmaker. These are all brand names in the art earth. And so on the other hand, she's found artists like Hamad Sahihi, Morteza Ahmadvand, that don't even, you know, literally had no representation and are emerging artists. And she juxtaposed them all together in this wonderful evidence that really gives y'all a fantastic snapshot of the diversity of Iranian art, because the mediums themselves are diverse. You've got works in the class of an oil pulsate. Y'all've got neon, yous've got carpets, you've got a special plastic cut-out out, photos, mirrors, ceramic.
Mohammed Afkhami: [00:31:56] It's quite impressive how many different ways you lot tin make art. And then, she's likewise showing you the breadth and range of these artists' work. But interesting, to your earlier point in the conversation and so many link back to Iran in one style or another. There's always some reference to Iran and there might be something very political or contemporary, but it might be something every bit abstract every bit Iran's history with Sufism. I mean, it depends on what work you're looking at. I know that information technology's very hard for people to fathom going around museums in the manner we did before COVID hitting. But this is a wonderfully curated show. It's not a crowded museum. It'due south a gem of a museum. Luckily for u.s. actually, because in that location were so many cancellations and movements and people, you lot know, deferring shows, we concluded up taking up the whole museum. So, the works actually take more space between them, and information technology really lends well to a visit. And then, I would encourage people to see it if they're in New York and it'due south going on until May, every bit you said, considering zero is amend than seeing artwork in person, every bit you know.
Neil Koenig: [00:33:15] One thing that struck me going round the exhibition was the contrast and variety of the dissimilar pieces. I hateful, at that place was a stack of carpets with a jet fighter cut out of them. And then at that place was the richly busy oil drum, which also had bullet holes in information technology. And this kind of theme of state of war did seem to kind of pervade some of the pieces. But in other places in the exhibition, there was no sense of that. And then, it'southward quite a rich mix.
Mohammed Afkhami: [00:33:56] That's right. I mean, like yous brought information technology up brilliantly. I mean, yous take some works that conspicuously characterized Iran in the post 1979 setting. Right. If you recall about Iran, it'southward basically been in i class of war or another since the revolution. And you know, you take the work you reference flight carpet by Farhad Moshiri. These are 32 machine fabricated carpets, which also is like multiple meanings here. Similar on the one hand, when you think near carpets, you call up of Aladdin and the flying rug, you accept this sort of 1001 Arabian Nights notion of a carpet, but also a carpet is a traditional industry in Islamic republic of iran where, any weaver could take a year or more to make a single carpet. And of course, that industry is being decimated past the fact that today you have industrial processes that can recreate these carpets, albeit machine made. They don't take the same texture or value. But at the same time, if you think about buyers of carpets, 95% of them are simply in for the aesthetic. And if they tin buy a carpet for 1000 versus ten,000, that'due south homo fabricated. They're going to buy the cheaper 1. And so, as a subtle criticism of this rug industry that's in almost terminal decline because of the advent of modern engineering and industrial processes.
Mohammed Afkhami: [00:35:21] But at the same time, it's besides critique about the fact that, hither'due south a society that nosotros used to, at ane point have. Yous know, carpeting making is a magical, nearly clichéd feeling of existence in the souk. And now, the Middle East, Iran, this region has become very militarized. Aforementioned thing with the work that you described in the oil pulsate. This is done by a wonderful female Iranian artist based in California chosen Shiva Ahmadi. She'south taken the old school art of miniature, fabricated this elaborate work across the barrel. But equally you said rightly, with violent scenes and bullet holes that have been painted because why she'due south basically saying that, with the advent of oil, our traditions have been compromised and the society has go, at least from an external perspective, a lot more than vehement because of, oil and the realities of oil politics. And so on the other hand, as you said rightly, that the other works in the bear witness that have naught to do with that and are very mystic in nature.
Mohammed Afkhami: You lot've got Y. Z. Kami's domes, where you expect at information technology and it's almost hallucinogenic. You look at it and y'all're like: Wow! Information technology's soothing. It'south peaceful. When you lot wait at Shirazeh Houshiary's Pupa, where you lot see this glass, you know, spiralling structure, that is basically the beginning of an Infinity column. A reference to her love of Sufism and this notion of infinity. And you think of a whirling dervish going circular and round. So yous have Alireza Diame Dayani, where y'all see the 6 days of creation, where it'south the seeds and you see this mad almost psychedelic work where information technology's four metres or maybe longer, four and a half metres long by i and a half wide or ii metres wide where y'all run across this entire work done in felt tip pen of this almost surreal cosmos of the seeds. Again, what is that got to exercise with Iran? Information technology'due south just this guy'due south view of how the world was created. Then, it's very random. It's very various. It'south very rich. And information technology shows you lot that you lot can't pigeonhole Iranian art into any one area.
Neil Koenig: [00:37:41] What'southward adjacent for yous? I empathise that you lot're thinking about setting upwardly a kind of digital museum.
Mohammed Afkhami: [00:37:49] So that's something that nosotros're working hard on. Information technology'southward really over a yr in the making. We've had a few simulated starts considering the engineering is quite a challenge. But I have assembled a team which is drawn from New York, L.A., Tunisia, Islamic republic of iran, Paris. It includes some of the meridian groups in creating video, 3D designs. I've got a leading architectural house of Rem Koolhaas and Herzog & de Meuron architects that have created a structure that could only exist in the virtual earth. So, nosotros're really trying to put something together that would be clearly influenced from our part of the earth. The idea is that information technology'southward going to be a virtual archive for anybody to access and which is costless to the public. And, if you want to know most Iranian artworks, you're going to be able to, at least on a website feature, look upwards any piece of work in the drove, and in that location will be a blurb about the artist. Obviously, it will be maintained to brand certain that all their accomplishments and shows are updated in their in their biographies. And then there'll be a visual rendering where nosotros volition bring the unabridged collection online in 1 shot. Nosotros will bring the archive in one shot. Merely the actual first rendition of this virtual museum will exist focused on the architectural story and a new pick of works that probably be xxx to forty works with a possibility of seeing the residue of the works, albeit at a distance.
Mohammed Afkhami: [00:39:26] And I know information technology sounds a little vague, but I don't want to be likewise specific considering it's notwithstanding not yet finished. And I want to exit an element of surprise. But the idea is that it's going to be a new way to look at art. It'due south going to be taking these artworks and doing things you lot could never do in a world with gravity, I'll say that. So that fashion you can sympathise that we're going to play with the fact that yous're going to have works suspended. And I think it'southward going to be a overnice way for people to meet the piece of work because, you know, it seems to me that these pandemics are going to go a new reality of life as nosotros have new variants. And, sadly, not everyone has the opportunity to see some of these works in person. So, it's smashing to at least have some way to deliver these works, at least in an online setting, while standing to endeavor to exercise a work or testify every yr or two in a new location and keep this roadshow going. That'southward my idea. And then, it's a combination of bricks and clicks if you lot like.
Neil Koenig: [00:40:32] Is the goal to also brand information technology easier for audiences in Iran to encounter some of the works in your collection?
Mohammed Afkhami: [00:xl:forty] Admittedly. Then, on the technology, I've made it very clear that it has to exist available in a way where agreement the bandwidth and the cable restrictions and broadband restrictions you have in Iran, I don't mean by way of filter, I mean just the speed of their network is a lot slower than what yous would find let's say in Korea. Information technology can exist a show that that only Koreans tin admission. It's got to be accessible at different levels to people who have dissimilar speed, access to the Internet. Then, the answer is admittedly, this is as much for people in Islamic republic of iran as it is for people outside.
Neil Koenig: [00:41:22] What would be your advice to others who might desire to do the same sort of thing for countries where they may not be perchance known as widely on the international scene for art as they would like? How would yous suggest that people follow your case?
Mohammed Afkhami: [00:41:43] I would say, every style you can promote art counts. I mean, I'm lucky that I've stumbled into a network of people who've fabricated ideas happen. I happen to know people in the museum community and I'g friends with a lot of gallerists and dealers and they've all been supportive because I think they recognize that there'south really nothing to proceeds here other than increase Islamic republic of iran's art exposure. So, people are ever happy to assist. And I think if yous can cultivate your own network and promote things, you know, in whatsoever capacity, it's worth it. And today the possibilities are countless. When I started doing this, the world of, let'south say, online social media was not the force it is today. And as y'all tin see, people tin be from nowhere and build an incredible online presence. And and so that could easily be translated for art, too. And you don't have to take actually don't have to have money to do that. You simply have to be clever. And and then, I would be very supportive of it. I would tell them, you know, like, don't be shy to ask favours, don't be shy to send proposals because the worst thing someone can say is, no, they're not going to say no, driblet dead I wish you never contacted me. Information technology'south simply going to exist a no. Or, deplorable, I can't help. You'll be surprised by the extent to which people are looking for new ideas. In that location'south so much art in the world.
Promoting Misunderstood Culture
Mohammed Afkhami: [00:43:07] Information technology's funny, I call back about some seminal moments when they opened the Louvre in Abu Dhabi, the whole idea was almost tolerance. And interestingly, the way the museum show starts, it has works from I guess I can't retrieve, but like possibly 1000, 2000 B.C., simply from different parts of the globe showing this notion of mother and kid. Merely these are iii cultures that never could have, given what we know had never, ever had any overlap. Just however the works were being developed in parallel. And so, I retrieve in this age that we're in now, annihilation that promotes misunderstood or unknown cultures is a plus, right? I hateful, this is a generation that is constantly feeding on new, and novel and their attention span is getting smaller. And and then, I would be very supportive, and I would tell people, try do it and don't be shy to ask, because, as much every bit you lot think that they're doing your favour, you lot're also doing them a favour. Considering the job of these museums and these galleries is to bring new content. And so, retrieve of yourself as similar a venture backer, introducing them to a new opportunity, whether they accept information technology or not, it depends on who yous're dealing with and what, y'all know, what's a priority for them. But never be afraid to push button your own art, or your own civilization forward because in that location's going to be somebody who'southward interested. That's all I'll say.
Neil Koenig: [00:44:42] Mohammed Afkhami, thank you very much.
Mohammed Afkhami: [00:44:45] Thanks, Neil, and my pleasure to meet you.
Interview credits: Neil Koenig.
If you liked this interview, exist sure to check out our interview with Daniel Birnbaum, Artistic Director, Astute Art.
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Source: https://radioideaxme.com/2022/03/23/rebel-jester-mystic-poet-contemporary-persians-the-mohammed-afkhami-collection/
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